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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
 Posted - 01/03/2005 : 10:21:05 PM
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3 Jan 05
Bronco Build up, Day 1
I am going to attempt to extend my radius arms 12¡¨, push the front axle forward 6¡¨, lower my 5.5¡¨ lift about 2¡¨, and fit 40¡¨ MTRs under my 72 EB. And I am going to try and do this in less than 10 days.
The history: I have been building this rig since 1996. It is a 72 with D60, Corp 14 bolt, ARB and Detroit, 4.56¡¦s, C4, stock D20 t-case, approximately 5.5¡¨ of lift, 90 5.0 H.O., Toyota PS, late 80¡¦s Hydroboost, blah, blah, blah. I had 37¡¨ Goodyear MT¡¦s on 16.5 double beadlocked hummer rims.
I sold the rims, and most of the tires. I picked up 4 used 40" MTR's tonight, and the Trailreadys should be here tomorrow. (Fingers crossed...)
The build plan:
I have some very nice Camburg or Donahoe Racing TTB extend radius arms on a 89 F150. I am selling the truck, and taking a lot of the pre-runner stuff off of it. I believe I can combine those arms with part of the forged EB arms and have a very strong, reliable and dependable set of extended arms.
I do not want to lose the phenomenal feel of my Toyota steering box, so that will have to get pushed forward. That will necessitate moving the front right body mount. To fit the 40s both of the front mounts have to be relocated anyhow. The onboard air manifold is on the front sloped portion of the inner fenderwell. That is going to have to move. I guess this is a good time to put in a filter ļ.
I will to build an additional front crossmember. This will tie in the steering box, both frame rails, and the sections of rectangular tube where the front bumper slides into the frame.
That¡¦s enough for tonight. Wish me luck.
Shane
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Scotty
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Posted - 01/04/2005 : 09:51:45 AM
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Shane, welcome to the group! How about a pictoral spread for the list????
Just a thought about the steering box. I run an F150 4x4 box with the pitman arm moving forward. Its a sweet box and one that can be bought off the shelf. Plus, you don't have to move it so far forward. It can sit in the original spot, with the arm pushed forward.
Just an FYI, I also had a similar box to the Toyota and broke two ears off the box on the Con this year and barely got it off the trail. It was a Nissan box:
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Scotty
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74Bronco
True Broncaholic
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310 Posts
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Posted - 01/04/2005 : 3:00:52 PM
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| Scotty, are you running the 4x2 guts in your box? or all 4x4? |
2006 Dodge 2500 CTD, 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 1984 Jeep CJ-7, 1974 Ford Bronco
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. "
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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Edited by - 74Bronco on 01/04/2005 3:02:25 PM |
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Scotty
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Posted - 01/04/2005 : 5:08:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 74Bronco
Scotty, are you running the 4x2 guts in your box? or all 4x4?
All 4x4. |
Scotty
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 5:17:57 PM
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Day 2....
Day two consisted of pulling my Camburg TTB arms off of my F150, putting the stock radius arms back on. I also spent time on the phone with various vendors discussing how they make their arms. I have determined that I can combine these arms safely. I will be welding the first several inches of the forged EB arms into the center of the tube arms. I am going to a welding/fab shop tomorrow eveing. I can MIG, but I think with the forged I am better having it TIG'd or ARC'd with a high nickel alloy rod. The forged will be heated prior to the welding, and all fitting will be done tonight (by me).
I can build enough camber into the arms that I could go back to a rubber bushing (not my idea - wish it was!) and I think I may do this. Imagine - extended radius arms and all rubber bushings. Should be a cushy ride.
The rest of day/night two was spent prepping the tube arms.
Back to work - Shane |
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Scotty
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Posted - 01/05/2005 : 5:22:47 PM
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| Shanem you can also grind off the welds on your front axle and rotate the knuckles for more caster and a better pinion angle. I ruin Cage arms on mine, and they have 4* built into them. But with 4.5" of lift, I wish it was more. I'm also running 7* c-bushings and still wish I had more caster. |
Scotty
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 11:38:07 PM
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Here are the day 3 and 4 updates. First - I have a two car garage, without any cars in it. Even when I could squeeze my bronco in - there would never be enough room to work on it. It has been cold and snowing. Day three was me pulling my Bronco radius arms, and figuring out how all of this will (or won’t work). I started in 2 inches of snow, and it just kept coming. Grrrrr…. I also received a present from the UPS guy: 17 x 9 aluminum Trailreadys. I spent a good 40 minutes trying to mount them on my new/used MTRs. Yes, I used soap and water, and it turned into an ice slushy. Finally, I realized that cold tires weren’t going on the rims. Put the tires in the house for 24 hours, and they mounted without a hitch. Lots of time spent on the normal parts runs. I spent last night at the welding/fab place. I fit everything – all the grinding, figuring out angles, etc. before I went. So, after I got there, we mocked everything up, tacked it with TIG, and then heated everything to about 700 degrees F, and he MIG’d the forged portion to the tube. Then I brought everything home, and made the shock mount, a piece on the bottom (0.250 wall 1.5 tube) that matched up with the other tube. Since these weren’t nearly as critical as the initial pieces, I heated everything with a little torch, and welded it myself. The final result was an additional 3 degrees of caster built into the arms - versus the caster I would have had just extending the arms.
The left front bodywork is at about a 90 percent solution. It looks like the axle will be moving forward either 4 or 4.5 inches. I don’t think I can achieve my desired 6 inches without getting into the headlights. As it is a lot is cut out now.
Today was final hardware and assembly of the last wheel, pulling off wheels and spacers, and mounting the new stuff. I can’t even put the right front wheel/tire on - just not enough room. Plus, I have spent a ton of time eyeballing where the front will go, and cycling an imaginary suspension.
Tomorrow will entail some new large drill bits, mocking up the radius arms, and removing the coil tower, shock tower, track bar bracket, blah, blah, blah. I am dreading this part.
Wish me luck, and stay tuned.
Shane
Scotty – If you think this belongs in the tech section, by all means move it.
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Scotty
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Posted - 01/07/2005 : 11:46:20 PM
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Seems fine right where it is for now. No reason to move it yet. I want to see pics though damnit!
Pretty soon I am planning on gutting my inner fenders and building a fender exo and engine cage. I am very curious to see how you are cutting and setting up the front clip. |
Scotty
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Watfab
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Posted - 01/08/2005 : 11:02:24 AM
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I also say that you should try to find a way to post some pictures. I am sure that you are going to do a good job with this but it allways helps if you have a few extra eyes looking at it. Sure saved me on my build a few times. 
Wade |
68, 5.0 HO, C4
4 link 60 rear, reverse 3 link 44 HP front
I am one of the reasons the EB recovery team exists (they're not brave enough to try it)
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Socal Tom
True Broncaholic
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Member #5611 |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 1:20:26 PM
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You may want to look at the www.westcoastbronco.com arms. They look alot like what you are building.
Tom |
Bronco, Jeep, Zuki... I really don't care, just shut up and drive.
My RigRater Score: 823RRv1.0 with a BOA of 25.44 |
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 7:25:56 PM
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Another day has passed...everything has been ground off of the frame. That actually went easier than I anticipated. The right coil tower was bent forward, but after a little persuasion by me 4 pound hammer, it is back to where it should be.
I think do to clearance issues I am going to have to compromise on both my desired lift and how much I move the front axle forward. I think I may be able to squeeze 4 or 4 1/2 inches of stretch out of the wheelbase. The lift may remain at 5 1/2 inches. I believe as my axle moves forward, the springs I have will provide more lift. So to mock everything, I will drill 2 verical holes in my frame, and 6 in the spring towers. I will be able to set everything at a couple of different heights (changing the mounting position of the coil tower on the frame). I haven't done anything to the rear, so I can use that as a reference.
Wade - my wife has the digital camera in California right now -that is why I put all this time into the bronco :) I agree that pictures are important, heck I have read and reread your posts. I bought a cheapie camera from Walgreens when I started this, and will post the pics when I get the film developed.
Tom - I had been contemplating this method of combining my radius arms for about 6 months. I looked at the West Coast Bronco radius arms about a month ago - Ureka! I talked with them before I had them welded. Nice enough people, but...I understand propriety information, but whoever I taled with told me they designed, fabbed, made the jig, etc. Bull!@#$. The TTB arms I have have the same welds, bend, and end weld for the stud (as opposed to their heim). Either they are modifing the TTB arms like I did, or they know who makes them and purchase them without the TTB ends. Plus, I didn't plate the end to cover the forged Ford piece, I want to see if any cracks develope over the years! Enough. They were nice, and if I couldn't fab my own I consider theirs.
Well, tomorrow is family time, and Monday is "honey do's". Hopefully the weather is good Tuesday and I can get this front back together. Hope I get it right.
Shane
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tdmac74
Compulsive Pony Rider
USA
52 Posts
Member #5572 |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 9:33:52 PM
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Hey Shane in regards to the Bull!@#$ you speak of. I happen to know first hand that the WCB arms are built in their shop in their fixtures and are not TTB arms purchased elsewhere and re-modified.
I just thought I would help clear that up. Build-on!
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Todd |
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 08:46:13 AM
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Todd,
I apologize and stand corrected.
Thank you for the clarification.
Shane |
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 09:27:32 AM
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I was able to spend some time on the build up both Monday and a portion of Tuesday afternoon. The extended radius arms are in, and the wheelbase is exactly 4 inches longer. After much deliberation, this seemed like the most I could achieve without either lifting the bronco more, or cutting/relocating the headlights and grill. There may have been another half inch or so, but I didn't feel the effort or the risk was worth the gain. As a bonus, I think my final suspension lift will actually be an inch or even two inches less that it was (5.5 inches). All my final clearances are done at full compression, with the frame crossmember contacting the tie rod.
I ran into a few snags. I reused my old 7 degree C bushings. That combined with the castor I built into the arms gives me a total of 12 degrees of castor. I started mocking up my Pitman arm, and track bar location. After I welded in the track bar mount (for the second time - Grrrrrr) I realized my castor was excessive. There is a resonable likelyhood that that mount will have to come off again. The amount of available space between my track bar, the diff cover, and tie rod is miniscule. This is because of the large O.D. of the Rockstomper tierod and draglink, the tie rod over conversion, and the location of the D60 differential. As I drop the caster back to 7 degrees, the rotation may move the tie rod into the pitman arm, and the diffhousing into the track bar. I had already spaced the axle side of the track bar bracket up when I installed the D60. I am still using a drop bracket, but I only need about a 2 inch drop on it. I picked up some 2 x 6 and some other scrap at the steel yard yesterday, I may just make a single bracket.
The rest of my time has been burning in the radius arm mounts, removing copious amounts of sheetmetal, fabbing some support mounts for the fenders, routing wiring, mounting my OBA to the supports, all the extremely time consuming "little stuff".
The weather is hit and miss, and this doesn't fit into the garage and allow me the room to work on it.
Lessons learned. Welding at 2 am, in temperatures less than 20 F, means you are tired, your shield will fog even if you hold your breath, and your welds look like boogers. I managed to create more work.
I found some 2 degree bushings about 70 miles away. A die hard bronco nut named Eric had them in Elizabeth, CO. Drove up to his place last night and spent 6 hours B.S.ing about broncos and checking out all his stuff. Great guy, and lots of spare everything.
Today is an errand day, and then Thursday and Friday are my last "big" pushes. Wonder how far I will get????
Shane |
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tdmac74
Compulsive Pony Rider
USA
52 Posts
Member #5572 |
Posted - 01/12/2005 : 7:49:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by shanebronco
Todd,
I apologize and stand corrected.
Thank you for the clarification.
Shane
No worries Shane..
John and his boys do great work and I would hate for any negative rumors to get started.
Now lets see some pics of your rig. It sounds like it is starting to come together.
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Todd |
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 4:25:07 PM
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Alright, the 10 day build up wnet into the eleventh day. I got my pics developed and put onto a CD. I am very disappointed in the $9.99 Walgreen's camera. A lot of th pictures did not come out. Let's see if I can attach some pics...
OK, my pictures are too big. Anyone know how to make them smaller so I can post them?
I have most of the front done. I still have to fab up the front shock hoops, finish putting the battery in the rear, put in a brace between the firewall, fender, and radiator support, and replace a brake line I crushed articulating the front. I should have this done in the next few days.
The ride height in the front is about the equilavent of a 3 inch lift. My frame is approximately 10 inches from the top of the axle. The top of the windshield frame is 77 inches from the ground. I used the stock coil buckets, and welded a 3 inch by 2 inch piece of angle iron on the bottom. This raised the bucket 3 inches, and wrapped the rest under the frame. I also welded 2 2 x 2 pieces of angle iron on each side of the buckets to brace them.
I ended up removing the track bar after I replaced the C bushings. Nothing was lining up correctly anymore. So, I made another one, and realigned everything.
Now, if I can just get these pictures to post....
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Scotty
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Posted - 01/16/2005 : 4:58:47 PM
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| I post the pics. OPen each pic with MSPaint. Then shrink them with the "stretch/resize" option and click Save As. |
Scotty
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 9:58:50 PM
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Shane
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 10:08:26 PM
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Still learning here, the labels didn't come with the pictures. Sorry. The first two are unintentional duplicates. They show the front end pushed forward, and all the components moved. They also show the modified coil bucket.
The third pic is on jackstands, with 33" tires slapped on it for safety. :) This is the beginning...
The fourth pic is a comparison of the 40 MTR's, one of my old 37 MT's and the 33's mounted (but not actually touching the ground).
Pictures 5, 6, 7, and 8 show the radius arms as they came along.
Pic 9 is everything removed.
Pic 10 shows the new arms mounted, and the axle pushed forward 4 inches.
Pic 11 depicts full uptravel. The tie rod contacts the frame crossmember.
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 10:21:57 PM
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Another shot of everything moved forward
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Front track bar and drag link angles
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Radius arm angle at ride height
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innner fenderwell gone, brace, OBA mount
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ride height and a helper...just kidding with the ride height
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Final shot at ride height. This is how the front will look for awhile....
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Scotty
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Posted - 01/16/2005 : 10:58:51 PM
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Shane, did you sleeve the frame when you moved the box forward?
Looks like a damn clean install and something that I will need to keep in mind when I do mine in the future. My plan would be to move the rear back about 4" and the front forward 4" for 100" of wheelbase. |
Scotty
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 09:50:21 AM
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I didn't sleeve the frame yet. The rear two bolts are right on the frame rail, so I won't sleeve them. The forward bolt has already started bending the frame in, just tightening it up! That will get sleeved before I put any real mileage on the truck.
Well the build up is done for now. I will pick up again in a few months with the rear, and the final details on the front.
Shane |
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Scotty
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Posted - 01/19/2005 : 12:08:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by shanebronco
I didn't sleeve the frame yet. The rear two bolts are right on the frame rail, so I won't sleeve them. The forward bolt has already started bending the frame in, just tightening it up! That will get sleeved before I put any real mileage on the truck.
Well the build up is done for now. I will pick up again in a few months with the rear, and the final details on the front.
Shane
Shane, you need to sleeve the frame. Its a must. Even the old original sleeves aren't enough to hold it together. I was breaking grade 10 metric bolts with my nissan box on every trip and finally ripped the box off the frame on the Rubicon. I am now running 1/4" wall sleeves through the frame with my F150 4x4 box and haven't had an issue since. Eventually it compresses the frame and the frame will crack. I have 1/2" plate on the outside of the frame and 1/4" plate on the inside as well as those sleeves.
Also, the u-bolt idea that got me off the Con this year was such a good one, that I am planning on welding two more sleeves to the top of the frame under the box and using a u-bolt to add yet two more attachment points for the box. |
Scotty
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shanebronco
Compulsive Pony Rider
29 Posts
Member #7306 |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 3:08:44 PM
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The frame has been braced and sleeved. I was only able to sleeve the front bolt hole. The two rear holes are too close to the top and bottom of the frame. The bottom (rear) hole is approximately 1/2 of an inch away from the front stock front sleeved hole. I made a diamond shaped plate out of 3/16 inch flat plate. I welded it to the outside of the frame, and it provides a nice flat surface for the box to mount to. I believe a lot of ears broken off of boxes are because the frame is contorting under the box and creating additional rotational stresses on the steering box ears. On the inside of the frame, I used the U section of a piece of 2 X 4 rect tube, 3/16 wall. I cut the piece down, and it acts as a giant washer for the two rear bolts. This distributes the load of the bolts to the top and bottom portions of the frame.
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Francois
Rockaholic
USA
109 Posts
Member #5635 |
Posted - 02/03/2005 : 01:15:02 AM
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Looks good, whats the spec's on the front D-60?
How's the clearance with your crossmember?
Lets see some pic's articulating.
Later maybe, Francois. |
Edited by - Francois on 02/03/2005 01:20:26 AM |
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Francois
Rockaholic
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109 Posts
Member #5635 |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 11:58:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Francois
Looks good, whats the spec's on the front D-60?
How's the clearance with your crossmember?
Lets see some pic's articulating.
Later maybe, Francois.
Just wondering what year D-60 that is and is it all Ford, or did you use different knuckles and brakes, Chevy, Dodge or Ford?
Steering arms on the knuckles look higher on the knuckles in the pic's than I remember.
Any new progress?
Later, Francois. |
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Bronco build up for 40's the beginning...
